Talk:first
Add topicLatest comment: 17 years ago by Cromwellt in topic Determiner or adjective
Determiner or adjective
[change]Wikipedia lists ordinals as being among the determiners, but first passes very few of the tests. The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language (Huddleston & Pullum) doesn't list ordinals as being among the determiners and mentions "ordinal adjectives" a number of times. Given that, perhaps first should be listed as an adjective and not a determiner. Any thoughts?--Brett 03:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Regular English Wiktionary considers "first" an adjective and a noun without calling it a determiner.--Jusjih 18:02, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, Regular English Wiktionary is generally unaware of the whole determiner category. In fact, few dictionaries use it, though every modern grammar does. The Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English (for English language learners) uses the determiner category, though somewhat inconsitently. Anyhow, they have first as adjective, adverb, pronoun, and noun, but not as determiner. I think I'll change it.--Brett 19:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Regular English Wiktionary has several discussion rooms. You may want to raise your concern at en:Wiktionary:Tea room.--Jusjih 17:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- I had more or less the same question (see Category talk:Ordinal numbers). I don't really know exactly what a determiner is, and I'm very comfortable with calling things like this an adjective. --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 01:43, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- Regular English Wiktionary has several discussion rooms. You may want to raise your concern at en:Wiktionary:Tea room.--Jusjih 17:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, Regular English Wiktionary is generally unaware of the whole determiner category. In fact, few dictionaries use it, though every modern grammar does. The Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English (for English language learners) uses the determiner category, though somewhat inconsitently. Anyhow, they have first as adjective, adverb, pronoun, and noun, but not as determiner. I think I'll change it.--Brett 19:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Regular English Wiktionary considers "first" an adjective and a noun without calling it a determiner.--Jusjih 18:02, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- My fault. I had initially misidentified ordinals as determiners. Rodney Huddleston wrote to tell me "Cardinal numerals are indeed determiners, but ordinals are adjectives -- note the difference between `One student fainted' and *`First student fainted'. And fractions are nouns/NPs: see CGEL p.434." First is a good model for ordinal numbers.--Brett 01:46, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for clearing that up! --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 02:51, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- My fault. I had initially misidentified ordinals as determiners. Rodney Huddleston wrote to tell me "Cardinal numerals are indeed determiners, but ordinals are adjectives -- note the difference between `One student fainted' and *`First student fainted'. And fractions are nouns/NPs: see CGEL p.434." First is a good model for ordinal numbers.--Brett 01:46, 4 August 2007 (UTC)